Talk:Bloodline (VTM)
Bloodlines Obviously there's some disagreement as to what belongs on this page and what doesn't. As far as I'm concerned, individual castes (such as Assamite Viziers, Assamite Warriors, etc.) aren't bloodlines, because none of the Kindred consider them such. They belong more as subsections on the clan's parent page. I'm uncertain why several bloodlines were moved out of their existing sections into the "other" section (and then many were un-linked)? I'm confident with their current placement. If you think they belong elsewhere, let's have some explanation/discussion first. IanWatson 14:48, 24 Sep 2005 (UTC) : I definately aggree regarding Clan sub-sects such as the examples given. : Appologies for the impromptu edit of the Bloodlines. It was just an observation (in my opinion, based on what I've read, anyway) that some Bloodlines had been placed under the heading of a certain Clan when (to my knowledge) there was no canon evidence of the Bloodline having originated from that Clan. In other cases, such as the Gargoyles, although they do share blood history with those Clans to which they were affiliated in the Article, they are not really decended from them, so really stood under their own catagory with their own origins. : Appologies, I just thought that it would be clearer for readers to understand if Bloodlines with a direct and known heritage from a Clan were under that Clans' heading. While Bloodlines of uncertain or multi-clan origins were placed under their own stead and it further explained in their individual Articles, the theories regarding their origins. : Shoot me. : Ian, genuine appologies for any trouble. Hope all other contributions have been helpful. Luthaneal 22:26 GMT, 25 Sept 2005 :: No apologies necessary. In cases of edits like this I just want to make sure that people explain themselves first. Victorian Age: Vampire explains (or at least alludes) to the Daughters of Cacophony's origins as a combination of Toreador and Malkavians. Gargoyle are Tremere servitors, but were created from three clans (yielding three Gargoyle "bloodlines:" Gangrel/Nosferatu, Gangrel/Tzimisce, and Nosferatu/Tzimisce. :: I can understand your desire to put multi-clan bloodlines and such apart from everyone else, but this way if you're looking for (for example) any bloodlines that came from the Toreador, you can find them all, including the ones that are also bloodlines of other clans. It's better for searching purposes. :: Not annoyed or irritated. Just making sure everyone's on the same page if we want this project to be successful. (: IanWatson 01:09, 26 Sep 2005 (UTC) ::: Great. Thanks for the feedback. Luthaneal 15:59 GMT, 26 Sept 2005 : Weren't the Blood Brothers created by the Tremere antitribu and then just vicissituded to look like each other? That would put them under the Tremere and not Tzimisce list. I remember reading I think in GttSabbat that because there weren't any more Tremere antitribu and they couldn't embrace - there weren't going be any new BBs Coridan 17:44, 20 Nov 2005 :: Sure; feel free to add it. --IanWatson 04:30, 21 Nov 2005 (UTC) ---- References needed I couldn't find any references to the "clan variants" such as stated in the Version Differences section. The book mentions "bloodlines and other variations on the Clans", but the bulk of evidence shows that the so called "clan variants" are still considered as bloodlines according to the authors. Obviously, the Brujah antitribu are still Brujah and the Assamite Sorcerers are still Assamite, but the book (still) specifically uses the umbrella term "bloodline" while referring to them (check: VTM: 20th AE. p, 429 & 433 repectively). Therefore, I don't see why the list of "Known clan variants" shouldn't be merged with the list of "Known bloodlines" and it is my opinion that we should remove the Version Differences section. However, we could keep the "Clan variants" section. Russel Hammond (talk) 07:25, December 19, 2016 (UTC) :I had a talk with Ian Watson about that back in June. See User_talk:IanWatson#Setite_Clan_Variant_and_Serpents_of_the_Light. I suggest that you take your suggestion to him directly.Sharth (talk) 14:25, December 19, 2016 (UTC) ::I see no need to do that once the user Gtrmp already acted upon my suggestions. According to what is referenced by the V20 books, Ian's explanation is kinda confusing and he seemed to have not directly answered your question regarding the Serpents of the Light (which are clearly described as a bloodline in V20, as you can see in LotC, p. 63 and VTM: 20th AE, p. 432). Russel Hammond (talk) 15:48, December 19, 2016 (UTC) :::Yes, I agree that it is confusing. As far as I understand, the distinction was originally also called "Bloodline variation" and first detailed here http://theonyxpath.com/current-list-of-bloodlines/ back in 2011 and then changed to "Clan Variation" in the Rulebook. Nevertheless, it would be nice to have some kind of guideline for future attempts of organizing and separating Clan variants from bloodlines. I will link this talk to Ian's talk page (since he is the one that made that change in the first place), perhaps he can give some insight into why the separation was made and how we are supposed to work with it in this wiki.Sharth (talk) 16:32, December 19, 2016 (UTC) ::::I find the following explanation to be satisfying: "The distinction between bloodlines and clan variants is largely semantic, and mainly derives from the fact that the "full" bloodlines have more mechanical and social distinctions from their parent clan, necessitating a larger word count to describe their complexity.". Russel Hammond (talk) 16:35, December 19, 2016 (UTC)